I'd like your input on this...

Something that bothers me often is the accusation by those in MK who claim that we are negative and naive. They claim that most of the women, if not all, that frequent this site are whiners who never tried; never worked their business; never treated it like a business. Oh...and sales is hard so most people aren't going to succeed.

I certainly agree that if you attempt any direct sales and assume that once you start, people will find you or show up on your doorstep, you are sadly delusional.

But from my observations and conversations with women while I was in MK and after, I found few if any women who weren't really trying to make MK work. I saw lots of tears and frustration from women who had been in MK for years, who were doing the "business" by the book but who weren't getting very far.

By the same token, I know women who did do everything they were told and DID advance to Director and beyond. A lot of them became disillusioned by the marketing structure of the company when they realized it was mostly about recruiting and getting those big inventory orders.

So what I'm saying is that for the most part, I think the women I knew in MK DID treat it like a business.

Is everyone cut out to own a business? Certainly not.

But I've seen lots of women treat MK as a business and yet they still fail, for lack of a better word.

I don't know if all of this makes sense, but I've really been trying to get to the heart of the matter of why I think MK is not what some want to believe it is. Why I don't think I'm being negative at all when I tell someone that they'd be better off in a part-time job than spending time in MK. Why I can't figure out how women who really aren't doing well or making the money they thought they would defend MK adamantly.

 

Great, great, great, GREAT topic!  Thanks for bringing it up!

First, I do not agree that MK is all about recruiting.  While it is true that if you want to earn the use of a car or become a director, recruiting comes into play, it is not a requirement to making money in MK.  I am mainly a consultant and have been for years.  I have recruited people, currently have a team, but it's not my focus.  I know that a working, selling consultant can make more money (a lot more in some cases) than a struggling director.

But that's not the question did you treat it as a business and if so, why do some people still not succeed?  I personally don't believe it is corporate's fault OR the individual's fault.  If the consultant truly (big "if" in that word, "truly") conducted her MK as a BUSINESS, and it still didn't fly, it can be due to so many things.  Location, education, timing, caliber of people she was exposed to on a regular basis--the list goes on. 

In addition to my MK career, I am a legal assistant/paralegal.  I love it.  I'm good at it.  The firm at which I work is a great one and I can't imagine leaving it.  But people do all the time.  Why?  I don't get it?I love working here!  It's because we are all individuals with individual circumstances.  If we were all the same, everyone would do the same thing and other areas of life would be neglected.  Is that an individual's fault?  No!  The circumstances are simply different. 

Sassy made an excellent point above.  She would rather spend the time with her kids because she was not getting out of MK what she wanted.  Her children were small and she did not have the time, nor the commitment level, to work the business until it provided what she DID want.  Her timing was off.  Had her kids been grown, or perhaps other circumstances were different, she might have felt differently.

There are so many reasons and circumstances why ANYTHING could not work out for someone and everything line up perfectly for the next person.  Even within the circumstances, things are different.  For instance, one of my best girlfriends who is also in MK, and I often discuss why she is so successful selling fragrances and I?m not.  I can romance them, promote them, all the same things she does but she will get the sale and I won't.  I finally quit carrying fragrances, they are just not my thing.  I don't understand it but I accept it.  I moved on.

I feel like if something interests us, we should try it if it's possible.  If it works out, great!  If not, we tried: time to move on.  But sometimes a thing is not the FAULT of anyone or anything.  It's just not the right time or the right thing for that particular individual.

Great Topic LJ!

I didn't start MK as a business, I started for personal use - about 3 months later, I decided to try it as a business and did work it regularly for about 6 months.  I'd set aside time each week, do calls, followups, pass out samples & books galore, schedule grocery shopping after work when everyone else was there - I even did Friday afternoons!  AGGGH!

In those six months, I probably averaged 1 class per month since having classes in my home was not an option.  I do not work in a large business, do not have time to cruise the malls, and don't know everyone in town, which I was told that not knowing a lot of people was a GOOD thing, they want people who don't know a lot of people (translation: people who have credit!) 

NEWSFLASH - If you CANNOT be in front of people, a LOT of people, you won't be able to sell much!  Of course, I bought the SD / Recruiter - gotta have full store, blah, etc., and went Star for 3 qtrs, then one cold day the cc bill came in.  I had a full blown moment!

Currently still active but with minimums only this year.  I commit 2 - 3 days to "work" a couple of weeks out of the month hoping I can decrease my inventory.  So I am not "working a business" anymore.  SD/DIQ expects that everyone wants to commit 3 - 4 days per week working MK - plus their regular JOB, family, etc.  NOT TRUE!





 

 

True, it's a mistake. But it's not always easy to ward off the "rah rah" and encouragement of Directors who make it seem that in order to be successful you need to place those orders. There's the new product every quarter, and hence always a reason to order. Have to have the current products. Plus...they're going to run out!! I don't know how many times I heard that when I was a Consultant. When I first joined they did run out of limited edition products. Don't know if it still happens.


What Tam is referring to is one of the qualities Directors tell you makes one a good MK Consultant prospect: Not knowing a lot of people. It's presented as a plus that is designed to overcome a common objection that potential recruits state as one reason they wouldn't be good in MK.



I agree about not being as self-conscious around people we don't know as we are with our family. In fact, I think starting with friends and family is awful and could discourage many people from continuing in MK.

Getting bookings from your Perfect Start or Power Start is ideal but it seems like it rarely works the way it is supposed to. That's why Directors would always talk about how Consultants do their Perfect Start and then hit their "Perfect Stop."  Those initial classes with family and friends and business debuts rarely give you enough bookings to keep you going. Then a Consultant has to figure out how to get more customers. And that's where things get tricky. Now you get into the realm of, basically, cold calling. That's really what Warm Chatter is. Most people are terrible at this, which is why most people aren't good at sales.

The reason I think most people hate Warm Chatter and other such customer-getting things is because THEY themselves don't like being approached in that way. So the aversion to Warm Chatter and approaches like it is really a testament to the fact that the new Consultant IS running their business already by the Golden Rule: They don't want to be approached like that, so they don't want to treat others that way.



I agree. So why does the company make it seem as if it otherwise? You're supposed to be able to EASILY fit two or three classes into your schedule. You're supposed to mark off time on your calendar when you are going to work, i.e. hold classes. Problem is, they usually don't have you mark of the hours of phone time, meeting time, special events and other things. If you do that, you get a more realistic picture of the time it takes.



I agree. But some of that misconception comes from the way MK is presented by the company and those already in it.

And the Directors, if not directly the company, make a point of saying it's not like a J-O-B. Add to that the impression that there is a huge demand and the misperception that those 2 Billion in annual sales by the company is end consumer as in customers, rather than end consumer as in Consultants and Directors, and that only makes things worse.



What do you consider "actual selling time?" Most of the time, my sales were not classes that took two to three hours to do. So, if I showed up at a customer's home to show them new products and I was there for 10 minutes and I sold them $70 worth of product (not an unusual situation for me), then my hourly rate was $210. (Assuming I really made 50% profit on that $70 sale.)  In this example, I could consider my actual selling time was 10 minutes.

But that may be the only sale I made that day after calling on several customers. I would HAVE to count travel time, gas, my time...all of that. Otherwise, it's all unrealistic to me.

As surrenderthepink pointed out, when you're at weekly meetings and Consultants stand up front because they sold $400 or whatever that week, and the Director has them figure out how many hours it took, then simply divides that $400 by the hours they estimate, it is completely misleading and false.

I think you HAVE to figure time that it takes to pack for a class/unpack and travel time and gas. That's part of it. You can't do MK without doing those things.

In a "real" job, I would say that I still would count travel time and getting ready. It is STILL part of the consideration of the "expenses" of the job. If I were offered a job making $40,000 that was an hour commute each day, versus a $40,000 job that was a 10 minute commute each day, I would consider those jobs differently for sure. And my profit from the first job versus the other would be different: more time, more gas, potentially more stress, etc.



Good points here. It really is easy to embezzle from yourself when you're in your own business. Then suddenly, you've spent all your profits somewhere else instead of your business. I suspect it's one of many reasons businesses fail.

RealisticPink...take my comments in the well-intentioned spirit they are intended.  You know I appreciate your input and encourage it. You have brought up a bunch of good points. But I'm also trying to point out some things as well that I think get missed in the big picture of MK.   

The original question was "Did you treat Mary Kay as a business?"

A businesswoman would not succumb to "rah rah" and purchase $1800 worth of products for THREE QUARTERS IN A ROW if she was not selling the product to warrant those purchases.

A businesswoman reads training materials and anything else she can get her hands on to succeed.  She attends seminars, training sessions, reads, talks to others in the same business--in other words she is like a sponge and soaks up all the knowledge she can find to be good.  She uses facts in her business.  She sets aside time to work and does so.  She practices good time management, effective client development, accurate financial management and flawless customer service.   She follows the business plan to the letter, does whatever is necessary to get her business off the ground and in the black as quickly as possible.  During that time, a business OWNER will rarely get a vacation or much time with the family, but the investment of time and effort in the first few years is made because once the business is working itself, a more balanced calendar will be possible.  That is called investment in the now for pay off in the future.  I have heard this criticized by those against Mary Kay, but you ask any business owner or observe any business owner and you will see that it is absolutely necessary for ANY business to work.

A businesswoman will make sure that she is marketing her product or services to those that (a) want them; (b) need them; and (c) are able to pay for them.  She targets her customer and makes herself, her business and her product/service available to that target customer.  Start up expenses are necessary, but are not ongoing and a good businesswoman knows that going in.

A businesswoman will not hang around people that do not help her reach her goal.  While it would be great to goof off a lot of the time with friends, that doesn't pay the bills.  Unless her friends are in business with her, and then it's possible to make that work, but not 24/7.  Some time, someone's gotta do the work.  A good businesswoman will believe in herself and her business enough and respect her friends and family enough that she will educate all involved in what her goals are and what is necessary to reach them. 

I just described any number of businesses above.  If someone told you those facts related to any other business, you would not blink.  But because Mary Kay is involved in the discussion, people cry "No, that's not fair."

Well....if you want to make money you must work and stick to the plan.

Surrending, up above you said you should have put the effort in selling real estate.  I challenge you to get a real estate business started and on the road to success with the minimal investment needed to start a Mary Kay business.  I challenge you to go out on every appointment and sell a house.

I believe a choice of two jobs with one requiring a long commute and one that is close by DOES make a difference in what job you choose, but that does not make the rate of pay any different.  If a director is taking the total sales of a class and dividing by the number of hours to get an hourly rate of pay, that is incorrect.  First the amount of sale should be divided by 2 for the profit to show and that is certainly considered in the rate of pay.  But if you all sat in a meeting and observed that happening, why did you not say something?  If educating people is your goal, why did you not do that when you could speak to people still IN Mary Kay and not those that have gotten out?  A true businesswoman would have made sure that the facts and processes were correct and understood by her business partners.

I think it was LJ above (I can't find the comment right now) that said she went around to show product to customers at their homes (not classes) and spent time and money and made no sales.  I don't think that is profitable use of your time.  I do a LOT of on-the-go appointments after work, but I never just "drop by" to show product.  Before I spend my gas and valuable time I need to make sure there is a high chance I will sell product, so I make those appointments just as I would any other appointment.  Most of the time, these appointments are the result of a website sale and I arrange for delivery and ask if the customer wants to see or try anything new.  If the customer responds with "well, it would be fun to look around" but is not too excited about it, then I invite her to come to my home at ___ or ____ on (fill in the day) and shop.  My office is my store and is full of product.  My "go to" on-the-go appointments are for selling and my customers understand that.  They know this is a BUSINESS for me.  And you know what?  The majority of my customers treat me as they would any business.  They are respectful of my time, my samples, my product and me.  Do you knwo whY?  It's because I present myself, my product, my appointments and the opportunity as a business.  I always have.

Now...that's not to say I don't have fun or enjoy it, because I absolutely do.  I think if you are going to make a living you should make a life as well.

Warm chatter - I don't do this, at least in the way that you all apparently picture it.  It is NOT cold calling and it is not stalking.  The closest adjective for it to me is networking.  When someone asks me what I do, I don't say "Legal assistant/paralegal" first.  Why?  Being that doesn't make me money.  It might make the law firm money if I brought a new client in, but I would not get anything extra out of it.  So my answer is "Mary Kay consultant" first.  If the conversation continues, they will learn more about me, and part of that will be that I have a full-time job at a law firm.  But they start off knowing I have my own business with Mary Kay and I RESPECT MY BUSINESS enough to tell about it first.  Sometimes these types of conversations develop into Mary Kay relationships and sometimes they don't.  That's the way it is with networking.  But you never know when you will hear from someone.  I have had calls YEARS later (well, a couple of years at the most probably) where someone found my card just when she needed to and called me.  I network all the time for my Mary Kay business, but I also do it for friends, geographical locations, hobbies, kids, pets....don't you talk about yourself and your life to new people you meet?  Me too.

Tam, again I applaud you for being honest.  You tried Mary Kay and you didn't like it.  That's okay.  A lot of people try being legal secretaries and they don't like it or aren't good at it.  At least they tried.  You reviewed your goals, or however you want to phrase it, and decided it wasn't worth the effort.  That's okay.  It IS to me.  Of course there is effort involved, but I get so much more out of it that I don't consider it effort.  For what it's worth it sounds like your director is a big part of your problem if she sets high challenges and doesn't get why no one finishes them.  She is setting the challenge for what SHE wants, not what will help her unit.  That goes back to what I have said for 20 years--the business plan is formulated so that you cannot succeed unless you help someone else succeed--whether that is filling their need with a product or finding what your team/unit members want/need and helping those people get it.  If your director has a unit full of people who are doing MK part-time and don't want to earn a car or enter DIQ, she is crazy to set huge challenges based on recruiting.  She should set a challenge based on sales (not orders) and reward smaller achievements.  A journey of 1000 miles starts with a single step.  Once unit members start getting recognition based on what they are actually doing, they will stretch themselves and go for more.  It may never be cars and directorship but she will have a unit full of part-time MKers who are selling the cootie out of product.

And that would be treating Mary Kay as a business, which was the original question, as I reminded everyone.

It is true there are people within Mary Kay that do NOT treat it as a business, or at least run it as a successful business should be run.  But that is no excuse for anyone to not run their own that way.

I was just wondering how much money you are making from your MK business, after expenses and overhead? And how long have you been in MK?

I have been with Mary Kay for almost 21 years with a couple of years somewhere in the middle as a non-consultant.  I have done it full time, part-time, almost no time, with young kids, older kids, parents that needed me, illness, empty nest--just about any circumstance you could name.

The first time I was in, I earned a Grand Am and went into DIQ twice.  The second DIQ, I was about halfway through and had a few hard examples of life happen to me, and I didn't finish and was sidetracked for quite some time.  In fact, I still deal from the effects of one of those events today and it happened about 15 years ago.  It's a very long story that I don't really want to go into, but suffice it to say, I have had "challenges" that affected all parts of my life, not just Mary Kay, as I am sure is true with many.

Also, since I am sort of the black sheep on this site and don't know any of you personally really, I'm not inclined to reveal my financial status or tax information.  I will say, though, that for the past four tax years (I rejoined not quite six years ago) I have not only made a profit with my Mary Kay business, but it has been a substantial profit.  The money has enabled me to pay off substantial bills from my "life circumstances" that happened years ago (not related to MK, by the way) as well as provide special things for my children, grandchild, husband and myself.  On our tax return, it is an impressive profit, but in reality (i.e., not on a tax return where you want it be not so high) it is quite a bit of money that rivals what I make at my full time job.  As is always quick to be pointed out, I do not receive health benefits with my MK and that is one reason I MUST keep my full-time job (as health is part of the "life circumstances" I mentioned earlier) so it is a good thing that I like my job too.

I did well with Mary Kay the first time and I fell in love with all of the aspects of the business.  But this second time around, I not only wanted to get back into it for the joy it brings me, but I HAD to make money and a lot of it because of events going on in my life.  

Surrender, I'm not trying to totally dodge your question--I hope that this is enough information for you without my having to go into a lot of details.

While I was writing this, another comment was posted by WWIT.  I'm sorry that you think I am a bully.  I am not trying to be, I merely pointed out that the question was about treating MK as a business, which to me, is a very valid question.  As women, we are emotional about most things in our lives, but if you want a business to succeed you have to take out as much emotion as possible in making business decisions.

As I explained above, I am not publishing my tax return on this or any other site for you, people I have never met, to see.  I doubt that you would either.  I could ask that you prove to me you did everything right and it didn't work--would you do that?  At some point, we have to make the choice to believe someone or not.  It's not that I don't believe what a lot of the people on this site, PT, Shears, and others say--I believe THEY believe it, but if we all got down to the actual facts, without the emotion, I think it would be discovered that there were BUSINESS mistakes made.  I am not being accusatory or "elitest" towards anyone here.  I just know my own experiences and that of many other people I know, do not mirror those reflected on the negative MK sites.  As I have also said many times I know there are people within MK that do not work the business plan as it was designed and they are not good or fair businesswomen and it is my desire that those people STOP DOING MARY KAY.  They make us all look bad.  That is a goal that you and I both have.  But to accuse all of us of being like some is not fair, just as you accuse me of being unfair.

I have not walked in your shoes, but neither have you walked in mine.  I think you are being quite unkind in calling me a bully simply because I treat my MK as a business and I have made it work.  I am not alone in that.  I'm sorry that your experience was not like mine, but I cannot change that and I won't make blanket comments about your experience with no details provided by you.

I hear frustration in your written "voice" as well as anger.  I'm sorry that you feel that way, but I am not to blame for that, so I would ask that you not take out those frustrations and anger on me.  Thanks.