RealisticPink, I have read your long winded condescending posts long enough.


I choose not to believe you since you aren't even willing to say what your "substantial" income with MK is, irrespective of not publishing your income tax returns.

As you say, you don't know us and we don't know you, but I do not appreciate the tone of your posts that make it sound like we didn't work our MK like a business.   

Your intent may not be to bully, but your tone is clearly not helpful or friendly.  I choose to call it bulls**t, but that's just my unbusinesslike, opinion! 

BTW why are you here, if not to infer that we are not true businesswomen or we didn't work as hard as you have? 

RealisticPink. I will apologize for letting my Redheaded temper take over when writing the above lines. 

Obviously we disagree on the viability of MK as a business with any real profit.  I worked my business for 9 years with no profit because of all the expenses and even quit my full time job, thinking working it full time would make it more profitable.

I am not a meanspirited person and I am sorry if what I said came across as "mean".  You are welcome here and I will just choose to stay away from this topic in the future, rather than lose my temper.

If you go back and read your posts maybe you can see why I felt you were condescending and those who were not successful, somehow were "inferior" or did not treat MK as a business.

Anyway, as I said, I apologize, I hope there are no hard feelings between us.   

Thank you for the apologies.  Really.  But what I had hoped for was discussion and learning from both sides.

I wrote what I wrote because 20 years ago I didn't have any experience in running a business or selling anything.  None.  I learned it, I had great leadership in Mary Kay and it has been one of the true blessings in my life.  I'm a woman, just like you, who has a family and problems and a job and good things and bad things in her life.  I'm a seeker.  I love to learn new things.  I have overcome a lot in my life and will have more to overcome before I die. 

I make money in Mary Kay because I chose to learn how to do it.  I'm not saying you didn't.  I'm telling you MY story.  I had hoped instead of avoiding the subject, I could provide knowledge of what can be done, what is available, perhaps provide insight on what went wrong so that everyone who chose to, could learn something new.  I'm sure in getting to know some of you, I would have learned new things about other areas.  That's what new friendships and relationships do, at least in my experience.

I do appreciate the apologies, but I don't think I would have gotten them had I not said anything.  I'm not sure you would have recognized the meanness in what you wrote.

I meant no harm.  You did.

And you are welcome. But I don't control, censor, edit or delete posts that may not reflect some set opinion or way of thinking. This is an open group and like many discussion boards on the Internet, we welcome all input and opinions.

Whether someone agrees with you or not is another issue. I don't see this board as being a place where you struggle to get someone else to see things your way.


I think we have had intelligent discussion of this issue.

As for misconceptions, the real problem that I think exists where MKers and ex-MKers are concerned is the unwillingness to see some things and admit they are there.

For instance, I can't count how many times I've been told "Well, there are some bad directors, but they aren't all like that." 

I'm not even sure what they mean by "bad." Are there unethical directors and others in MK? Sure. But when we talk about the things that happen regularly in MK, we aren't talking about that. We're talking about the things that nearly ALL directors do because that's the way the business is designed.

I guess some of the frustration you see in this topic comes from the women here seeing and experiencing the same things, yet those in MK who want to "poo poo" it and blame it on a few bad eggs. Well, it isn't just a few bad eggs. It's inherent in the "business."

We get treated with as much rudeness when we try to get those still unwilling to step out of the fog when we point these things out. They're still trying to convince us that Mary Kay isn't an MLM.



Hmmm...that's pretty harsh.



True. I think you have made some excellent points.



Yes, businesses always hype their new and existing products. Everything they do is great, so if you're with that company of course you present your products as great/better, etc.

But the "rah rah" of Mary Kay crosses the line. They use environments and tactics that are more cult like. This became scarily apparent to me when I attended Seminar and was suddenly presented with a three-story-high video of Mary Kay Ash.  Here's your Leader...bigger than life. The worship of her that occurred in that auditorium was frightening.

All sales is about getting you psyched and excited. Why? Because most sales isn't easy.

But some sales is much easier than others. With MK, you have to go wandering around town and approach strangers. There's not much other way to bring in new business. There are tons of ideas for building business and most of your new customers are NOT going to come from classes for a variety of reasons.

(By the way...Warm Chatter is NOT networking. It IS more like cold calling, except face to face. That's exactly how the company teaches it. It's not simply mentioning that you do Mary Kay when you are asked what you do. )


People start websites for lots of things they believe in. There's probably already a few comments about the product on some of the consumer sites online.

I suppose this comment was to somehow comment on this site, somehow, as being silly or something.   


I think a tax return, namely the Schedule C that is relevant, is interesting for showing the amount of inventory purchased, the amount sold and the expenses. You can see what's really going on.




That's sad. I've certainly run across a lot ruder people than I've seen here. Maybe I'm biased.   

I've had plenty of nasty emails and comments from those in Mary Kay who refuse to see the things that we point out here.

I hope that NO ONE here will hesitate to say what they think. I don't think person attacks are very common here, but we do tend to sound the B.S. alarm when we feel it is appropriate.

 

In re-reading this post, I wanted to respond to the original question, "Did you treat MK as a business".  This is not a response to anyone here, rather a generalization of (my view) of how Mary Kay is "presented" as an "opportunity" and is passed as something that can be "worked" in very few hours, putting GOD first, FAMILY second and BUSINESS third.  They 'say' it's your own business.  "Business" (IMO) does not describe Mary Kay.  If I open a legitimate business, I can advertise how I want, run my business where I want, and sell my business if I want. 
 
I, personally speaking, am tired of being told "you didn't work your business" and "no one held a gun to your head" as a full blown blanket excuses thrown over every person who did not "make it" in Mary Kay by most of those 'in the pink'.  Noone wants to discuss WHY the business didn't work for the individual, and I agree, sometimes it just doesn't, and I also agree that each PERSON is PERSONALLY responsibile for the financial decisions that they make.

BUT what about the frontloading supported and encouraged by our SD's?  What about "fake it til you make it?" "find a way make a way?"  "what he (hubby) won't know won't hurt him / husband unawareness plan?"  "big girl panties" And don't forget, "you can't sell from an empty wagon", surround yourself with only MK approved positive people - never bring up negatives at business meetings, and lets face it, have you ever been to a business meeting anything like MK before?   Most who are 'in the pink' state that these traits are only supported by a few "bad" directors.  I beg to differ - I think if your director was NOT like this, she is in the minority!  These are not traits found in BUSINESSES! 

Those of us who are/have tried this "business", with and/or without success, who for whatever reasons, realized what was happening, were extremely fortunate enough to find our way here to find such wonderful, intelligent, smart and witty women to discuss this AND NUMEROUS OTHER TOPICS.

How many recruits would you get if your line was honest,

"How would like to start your own business for a minimum of $ 750, and sell to people you don't know but you can't advertise or sell via any retail measure? You'll find people to sell to starting with friends and family (who will start to dodge you because they will get tired of the MK hoopla but that's okay because you don't need to associate with anyone negative to MK) but, in the event they do buy from you, they won't want what you have on hand, so you'll have to order more because trading is not permitted. 

Your business will need to be open 24/7 because you can fit it in your everyday life, every day of your life and once you run through family and friends, then you will need to start cruising the mall/grocery/shopping center, giving every "smart" woman you meet compliments, whether sincere or not, and a sample of ? with your business card and trying to book a "free" facial. 

In the rare occassion this works, you will then try to manipulate this woman into bringing a few friends to turn this into a class, but don't tell her it's a class, and then you get to give away free product that you purchase, and in the event that anyone purchases over $40, you get to give away more free product that you must purchase, and you can drive there and back and pay for your gas, spend an hour getting ready, 2 hours at the class and then additional time filling/packing/and delivering the order, but don't mention any time other than the actual class time at the meetings, oh, buy the way, you'll have to pay to attend these meetings, and don't wear anything but hose, skirt & heels to meetings/appointments, and yes, purchase the approved logo coat/luggage/etc, so you can carry in around 80 lbs of stuff in heels, and ALWAYS be SOOOO EXCITED!

Now of course, you'll have to have a FULL store, and order at least $ 600 a month to be a star!  And, in the event MKC doesn't approve of anything you do, your contract will be cancelled.  You can't sell your store or leave it to anyone, so you build no equity.  Then talk other women into doing this "business" so you can make $ off of their purchases!"  - Anyone interested?

I agree UYC! Great post Tam! I feel the same way.

All I know is that MLM's aren't for me, I can't afford them! 

 

I don't think the Independent Beauty Consultant side of things is a business.  Mary Kay markets their products to their consultants.  Very little advertisement for MK happens outside of the pink bubble.

I became aware of this when looking at old Applause magazines (as they were going into the trash can...) They were hyping up how great a new product was going to be.  I think it was the Ultimate Mascara... which if I remember correctly, was a flop.

Anyway, the language of the article was to 'sell' the product to the consultant.  It was obvious. It is easy to see that Mary Kay puts a huge emphasis on 'selling' products to consultants.  Whether or not the products end up in the hands of consumers via a consultant is not as important.

Anyone who has been to seminar knows this, because they spend SO MUCH TIME hyping the BRAND NEW OMG IT's SOOOO great product.

The only REAL business associated with Mary Kay is the selling of products to consultants.  The "business" of a consultant is a facade... if it was a true business then (as was previously stated) consultants would have no restrictions on advertising, emails, web sites, store fronts, etc.

Wal-mart, for example, negotiates for products from suppliers... but how they advertise them, how much they sell them for, is up to Wal-Mart once the products are on-hand.  The supplier has their money!